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Author Topic: Another PUP Option For The Masses  (Read 3932 times)
kfriceman
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« on: February 10, 2012, 11:14:43 AM »

It’s called the The Cricket .

Nice design, quality materials and well built.  This is not cheap by any means but certainly offers a smart alternative for those looking outside of the “Box”

-Kevin
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bols2Dawall
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 11:32:14 AM »

Pretty cool but for that money or less you could pick up a Quicksilver or even a Chalet type PUP .
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mike4947
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 11:55:13 AM »

If you option it out you can run the price to over $17,000. For 6'6" wide, at the wide end trailer with a sloping roof that you can stand up in for ovre 1/2 the camper if you're 6' tall.
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Beacher
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 01:30:21 PM »

It's main marketing value is it's "cricket" shape.  They didn't follow the RVindustry's standard box shape.  However, their pricing is absolutley rediculous.  Starting at $14,000 with everything, including the spare tire, as optional!

It's slow this Friday afternoon.  I had one of my junior Mechanical Engineer's just now "reverse engineer" the trailer based upon the information on their website, and the fact that we assemble much more spendy aircraft.  We can profitably build a similar trailer in Southern California with polution regulations,  local labor rates, and associated overhead for about $6,500 out the door.  And that's with some nice profit margin factored in.

I'll admit that the cost would need to be increased significantly if we regularly attended outdoorsy events to market the odd-shaped trailer, purchase destination stickers to apply to the trailer from each of these events, had a cool design studio with bare red brick, exposed beams, and living room furniture in our offices. Wink

The only thing that would be more obnoxious, (and further drive up the cost to $14,000), is to support an in-house bicycle racing team, or a Nascar team like some other wacky small anti-ordinary lightweight trailer companies do. Cool
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 01:46:28 PM by beacher » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 01:43:06 PM »

this looks similar to something I saw last year in Austrailia...

agree with Beacher  (Beacher - write this down in your diary  - "today Stumps agreed with me" )

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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 04:23:13 PM »

Saw this on the travel channel the other night.  It was pretty interesting to see how they put it together.  The designs are based a lot on NASAs rover design.  The creator is a developer for NASA.
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 04:26:14 PM »

It's main marketing value is it's "cricket" shape.  They didn't follow the RVindustry's standard box shape.  However, their pricing is absolutley rediculous.  Starting at $14,000 with everything, including the spare tire, as optional!

It's slow this Friday afternoon.  I had one of my junior Mechanical Engineer's just now "reverse engineer" the trailer based upon the information on their website, and the fact that we assemble much more spendy aircraft.  We can profitably build a similar trailer in Southern California with polution regulations,  local labor rates, and associated overhead for about $6,500 out the door.  And that's with some nice profit margin factored in.
Cool

I think this is the same company that has been featured on "Extreme RV". The owner is a former NASA engineer and has been schooled in the ways of goverment accounting. I thinks it's pretty cool idea, mega bucks for the features. If you're spending that kind of money, then something completely "off road/off planet" is in order.

Thankfully, it doesn't come with a toilet seat or a hammer or it would be $40K!!
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kfriceman
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 05:33:30 PM »

It's main marketing value is it's "cricket" shape.  They didn't follow the RVindustry's standard box shape.  However, their pricing is absolutley rediculous.  Starting at $14,000 with everything, including the spare tire, as optional!

It's slow this Friday afternoon.  I had one of my junior Mechanical Engineer's just now "reverse engineer" the trailer based upon the information on their website, and the fact that we assemble much more spendy aircraft.  We can profitably build a similar trailer in Southern California with polution regulations,  local labor rates, and associated overhead for about $6,500 out the door.  And that's with some nice profit margin factored in.

There is no doubt this is a spendy PUP but your quick bottom up TIC (total installed cost) may not be a relevant as you would like.  Your manufacturing cost and associated overhead burdens are based on what size manufacturing facility unit rate of installation.  If you are a large manufacturing facility producing aircraft I’m assuming you have more than one client and different cost base/contract rates for units ordered…….I guess what I’m saying is volume production can greatly affect unit pricing.  A total guess on my part, just adding some thought for discussion.

One reason I assume his trailers or so expensive is that guys production facility, albeit small, has some very expensive equipment, automated plasma cutting equipment, CNC machining, etc. and if you are not producing large volume those costs are passed on to the consumer at higher rates.

-Kevin
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 05:34:53 PM by kfriceman » Logged

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Beacher
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2012, 02:30:50 PM »

...
One reason I assume his trailers or so expensive is that guys production facility, albeit small, has some very expensive equipment, automated plasma cutting equipment, CNC machining, etc. and if you are not producing large volume those costs are passed on to the consumer at higher rates.

-Kevin

Actually, no.  With modern Lean Production Methods, and JIT tooling, and production scheduling directly with machine tool suppliers the cost is minimal.  The volume of production is no longer a limiting factor, that is "so 1950's".  In the 21st century, utilizing modern manufacturing practices such as Design for LeanSigma, volume plays no role.  You can profitably have very short production runs.  If the system is properly designed, it costs the same to make one prototype, as it does to make a million/day!  That old thinking is partially what drove the old MBA's and Engineers schooled in the 50's-70's to outsource everything, as opposed to producing everything domestically.

The latest way for machine tool builders to distribute their very costly machine tools is not to actually sell them, but to lease them to you as a "business partner" or sorts.  Very similar to what the copy machine companies have been doing now for several years.  You only pay for what you use. This completely eliminates the need for PM, calibration, and any expendable tooling.  You just need to pay for the floorspace, an operator, and power.  Omada, Mitsui, Hasec, and all the other "Big Boys" of CNC are playing this game right now due to the U.S.A. economy.

The wholesale cost to plasma cut those cricket designs and contour the entire support spar that it's on, (including the cost of the 120.0 x 0.25 aluminum sheet material, for example), is under $5 in ANY quantity, 1-10,000 pieces, using a new state of-the-art OMADA CNC plasma cutter.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 02:48:15 PM by beacher » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2012, 03:49:19 PM »

Beacher, do your calculations include initial research, design and engineering, marketing, administration, facilities costs, insurance, hazardous waste management, transportation to the dealer (Cricket doesn't sell their own products, they sell through a dealer), etc.? And of course, there has to be a profit for the dealer.

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Beacher
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2012, 03:59:56 PM »

Beacher, do your calculations include initial research, design and engineering, marketing, administration, facilities costs, insurance, hazardous waste management, transportation to the dealer (Cricket doesn't sell their own products, they sell through a dealer), etc.? And of course, there has to be a profit for the dealer.



Yup, (see above, "associated overhead"). Big Smile

When starting a new venture, keep in mind that most engineering goes completely unpaid.  The founders of a new company rarely backpay themselves for coming up with the concept and initial design.

In this case we did have the luxury of reverse-engineering the existing trailer.  We are also well versed with product development, supply chain, distribution, advertizing, marketing, sales, facilities, regulations, and anything else to get a retail product to the general market.

When establishing the number, my Engineer did include some design time, (40 hours).

But realistically, it does not take a rocket scientist to design a recreational trailer.  Especially a person who has grown up RVing and knows the existing technoloogy.

I did have the luxury of having a Master's Degree Mechanical Engineer with a minor B.S. degree in Aeronautical Engineering who owns his own nice Country Coach motorhome.  He "reverse engineered" the recreational trailer in about 45 minutes during his lunch break! It did not burn too many brain cells, (or expense....none).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2012, 04:19:26 PM by beacher » Logged

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kfriceman
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2012, 10:23:28 PM »

Well there you go that’s just how much I know about manufacturing; unit installation rates and factoring are still the standards in my industry at least from a front-end budgetary perspective.

Quick question:

“If the system is properly designed, it costs the same to make one prototype, as it does to make a million/day!”

There has to be economies of scale here somewhere; you are not engineering, designing, tooling and part sourcing every unit.  There is some upfront cost that are no longer repeated during a production run…..right?

Second quick question:

“The wholesale cost to plasma cut those cricket designs and contour the entire support spar that it's on, (including the cost of the 120.0 x 0.25 aluminum sheet material, for example), is under $5 in ANY quantity, 1-10,000 pieces, using a new state of-the-art OMADA CNC plasma cutter.”

The materials, electricity, equipment lease, machine tech (labor), handling and storage, etc. is just $5/unit wholesale….is that truly realistic?

Thanks,

-Kevin
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Beacher
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2012, 10:27:24 AM »

Well there you go that’s just how much I know about manufacturing; unit installation rates and factoring are still the standards in my industry at least from a front-end budgetary perspective.

What you know, and what I know are likely very different.  And I will be the first to mention that I don't know anything, yet!  I learn new stuff every day!  I have only been involved in the Electronics, Appliance, Aerospace, Medical, Food, Mining, and Chemical industries as a manager and/or executive for the past 20 years.

Quick question:

“If the system is properly designed, it costs the same to make one prototype, as it does to make a million/day!”

There has to be economies of scale here somewhere; you are not engineering, designing, tooling and part sourcing every unit.  There is some upfront cost that are no longer repeated during a production run…..right?

Yes, there are economies of scale.  However, once the system is in place, scalability only lowers the price and increases the profit.

Second quick question:

“The wholesale cost to plasma cut those cricket designs and contour the entire support spar that it's on, (including the cost of the 120.0 x 0.25 aluminum sheet material, for example), is under $5 in ANY quantity, 1-10,000 pieces, using a new state of-the-art OMADA CNC plasma cutter.”

The materials, electricity, equipment lease, machine tech (labor), handling and storage, etc. is just $5/unit wholesale….is that truly realistic?

Thanks,

-Kevin

Yes. 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2012, 10:36:02 AM by beacher » Logged

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kfriceman
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2012, 11:34:33 AM »

"When starting a new venture, keep in mind that most engineering goes completely unpaid.  The founders of a new company rarely backpay themselves for coming up with the concept and initial design."

Because the engineering is unpaid new design or not there is still a cost assoicated with that effort and still needs to accounted for against deliveravle product.  I look a "backpaying" as the capitlization of the front-end cost for engineering, desing, ect......or when you starting making the big bucks for units produced.

-Kevin

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Beacher
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2012, 08:10:22 AM »

.... and still needs to accounted for against deliveravle product. 

Not necessarily.


I look a "backpaying" as the capitlization of the front-end cost for engineering, desing, ect......or when you starting making the big bucks for units produced.

-Kevin

There are methods to account for the capitlization of the front-end cost that are unusual and would seem completely weird to folks accustomed to conducting business in the past thirty years, (however work well within Sarbanes–Oxley for those who are public).

I hate to use an overused  1960'-90's cliché, but there is a whole new "paradigm shift" that is occuring in the U.S.A. regarding big business, production and manufacturing.  But it's not going to be "your grandfathers manufacturing". Wink
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