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Author Topic: Jayco wheel/hub diagram - bearing repacking question  (Read 5681 times)
thevoelkers
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« on: July 11, 2011, 01:17:04 PM »

Howdy all,

Doing some routine maintenance on the 1995-ish Jayco 1006 and am repacking the bearings. When I took the hub apart I expected to find something like this:



But really all that I found was a castle nut and the roller bearing assembly on the outside, and another roller bearing assembly and seal on the inside. There is no washer on the outside, or inner race, or outer race--essentially the bearing assembly just fits into the machined inside of the hub itself.

This looks to be the way it is supposed to be (though I wonder how the grease stays in the bearing assembly without the outer washer), but I can't find a diagram.

Does anyone have any idea if I'm "missing" any parts here???
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beemerphile1
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« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2011, 03:49:29 AM »

The races are not loose.  They are pressed onto the spindle and into the hub/drum.  They are installed and/or removed with a press or hammer and punch.

I've never had one without a washer but I have heard of some being that way.
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Tim
32 nights camped in 2014
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Momma said; "If you argue with a fool, it makes it hard to tell which one is the fool".


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PAPupster
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« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2011, 06:48:25 AM »

Snap a pic. It's possible the bearings were replaced with a different style. It's also possible the PO mistook the new bearing dustcover for a replacement for the washer and left the washer out.

The washer provides a slip surface for the castle nut so it doesn't damage the bearings and acts as a dust shield to keep dirt out of and grease inside of the bearings. It also maintains an even pressure across the surface of the bearing race and structure. The thin plastic dust covers on many replacement bearings is an improvement from both dust and grease points, but offers no real structural protection for the nut to bearing contact area.

IOW, the washer is not optional. It is also not a specialized part. I don't have the size in front of me, perhaps someone knows the outer dimension (must fit inside the hub) and thickness (thick enough not to deform). The last time I had to replace one, I just grabbed what was laying around until I found the correct diameter.

Hope this helps!

- JC
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1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
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2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
thevoelkers
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« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2011, 02:16:41 PM »

I went to the jayco dealer for a new seal and asked about this. He said it is common not to have a washer. Basically the bearing assembly has an integral washer of sorts, basically a wide flat area about the size of the castle nut.
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Hybrid Silver  Pickup GreyWisconsin

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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2011, 02:39:00 PM »

I went to the jayco dealer for a new seal and asked about this. He said it is common not to have a washer. Basically the bearing assembly has an integral washer of sorts, basically a wide flat area about the size of the castle nut.

Are you talking about the race?

If so, it is not a good substitute for a washer.

- JC
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1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
Nights in camper 2011: 16 and counting...
2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
thevoelkers
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« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2011, 05:04:12 PM »

Here is a picture. I could add a generic washer but it ran without it for who knows how long with no wear or damage, the jayco mechanic says its fine, and I don't want to cause any problems or damage.



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Hybrid Silver  Pickup GreyWisconsin

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thevoelkers
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« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2011, 05:06:03 PM »

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« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 05:19:34 PM »

Yeah, that should have a washer. Of course, you don't over tighten it. A washer will back the nut out about 2 threads for it to fit.

I'd add a washer. It will ensure a smooth contact surface and an increased surface area holding the bearing in place.

It may be fine without, but lots of things happen on the road. It was designed with one and is better with one. Why take a chance when it is so easy to rectify.

- JC
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1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
Nights in camper 2011: 16 and counting...
2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
thevoelkers
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« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2011, 05:55:14 PM »

It was designed with one and is better with one. Why take a chance when it is so easy to rectify.

Well, this is what I thought until the local Jayco yahoo said "it's fine." Which means it's either fine or he doesn't care because I didn't buy my Jayco there.  Tongue

Easy enough to add, I just want to be sure I don't create problems by adding. Just a basic washer thickness? I mean, stop at Ace and pick one up that fits as closely as possible?
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Hybrid Silver  Pickup GreyWisconsin

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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2011, 06:13:27 PM »

It was designed with one and is better with one. Why take a chance when it is so easy to rectify.

Well, this is what I thought until the local Jayco yahoo said "it's fine." Which means it's either fine or he doesn't care because I didn't buy my Jayco there.  Tongue

Easy enough to add, I just want to be sure I don't create problems by adding. Just a basic washer thickness? I mean, stop at Ace and pick one up that fits as closely as possible?

It's 'more likely' to fail, but won't necessarily. Once the Jayco fella has been stranded due to a bad bearing and spends all day trying to find parts and tools to fix it far from home with no shop around...he'll stack the deck, too Wink

Not sure how to describe the thickness, except there are really thin 'fender washers' and then there are washers that are about twice as thick and much stronger. IIRC, there should be a small gap around the inside of the hub from the washer. The gap is less critical in non-submersed bearings  (like a boat trailer that must flush water and junk out).

Hopefully you don't ever have a bearing fail, but if it does and separates the bearings from the race, the washer can help hold things together- hopefully until you can get to somewhere to replace it. Without a washer, parts are free to...well...do very bad things!

It should only take a few minutes.

- JC

Edited to make it clearer.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 06:15:48 PM by PAPupster » Logged

1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
Nights in camper 2011: 16 and counting...
2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
thevoelkers
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 05:15:07 AM »

Ok, I repacked the bearings and put this back together...there is no way to get a washer in there and still get the cotter pin into the hole to hold the castle nut. It adds too much thickness. So apparently it must be OEM to run without a washer.
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Hybrid Silver  Pickup GreyWisconsin

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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 03:26:31 PM »

Anything is possible, though I've never seen a setup like that, or seen directions showing installation without a washer  Huh?

The washer should be 1-3 threads, tops. It fits inside the hub, right?

It's not common for a castle nut to have an inbuilt washer (that's what it looks like, so using that description here). Does yours?

Okay, so if it doesn't fit, make absolutely sure the bearing is fully seated in the hub. If not, it could be a bigger problem than lacking a washer.

It's pretty rare to get the wrong width race/bearing, so much so that we won't really consider it.

Did you happen to take any pics while it was apart?

I was really under the impression that ALL were like this. But you can't prove a negative.

I apologize for making extra work for you. It still doesn't sound kosher, but if you check what I've listed above and you are absolutely SURE the castle nut won't go in far enough to use the cotter pin...I'd feel better about it being designed that way.

I'll see if I can find a breakdown of the original axle and hub for this. This is original to your PUP, right?

- JC

ETA: Here's a good video that shows the washer: http://www.etrailer.com/tv-repack_trailer_hub_bearings.aspx

Darn, why didn't I find these before you started, might have made the procedure easier for you Wink Here's another link: http://www.rverscorner.com/articles/bearing1.html
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 03:52:17 PM by PAPupster » Logged

1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
Nights in camper 2011: 16 and counting...
2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
austinado16
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2011, 05:35:29 PM »

You're fine to have put that back together as you found it.  The washer does not......not in the slightest......seal the internals against dust/grit contamination.  That's what the dust cap does.

That inner race is harden....harder than the hubs of hell....and it's fine for the back side of it to be in contace with the castle nut.

I've never seen an inner race on this type of tapered roller bearing.  It's always just as you found it.  An outer race that's been pressed (pounded) into the hub, and the bearing sets against it.

In the future, if you ever need to remove your outer races, you just strike them from the back side with a metal drift and a BFH.  You install them using a bearing race / seal driver kit, which is a set of aluminum disks with an aluminum mandrel.  You select the disk that shoulders down onto the race, set the mandrel into the center hole of the disk and drive the race into the hub using a BFH.  *smack......smack.......smack.......clunk* and it's bottomed out on the shoulder that's machined into the hub, and you're done.

Good job doing your own service work!  You probably just saved a cool hundred bucks....and you know it was done by someone you trust!
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thevoelkers
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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 04:35:24 AM »

All I can tell you is that the Jayco mechanic said it is typical for them not to have a washer, a washer will not fit, and I put it back the way it was put together. So I'm pretty comfortable with it.
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Hybrid Silver  Pickup GreyWisconsin

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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 05:23:52 AM »

All I can tell you is that the Jayco mechanic said it is typical for them not to have a washer, a washer will not fit, and I put it back the way it was put together. So I'm pretty comfortable with it.

Odd. But what else can you do...

Glad you have it together and ready for camping!

- JC
Logged

1991 Coleman Williamsburg (24')
Nights in camper 2011: 16 and counting...
2004 4Runner Limited V8
Screen room, BAL Leveler, Fan-tastic fan, rear storage carrier
Stepper door repair: http://www.popupexplorer.com/forum/index.php?topic=79173.msg170442#msg170442
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