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Author Topic: water pump and water heater problems in NEW Bayside CP  (Read 4715 times)
gomommago
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« on: May 03, 2010, 12:02:19 PM »

Hi Everyone,

The family and I took our new bayside for its maiden voyage this weekend (highly recommend Crow Valley RA at Pawnee National Grasslands, btw) and had a blast.  The pup was everything we had hoped it would be.....despite the fact that the water pump quit working part way through our weekend!

We de-winterized the system without a hitch a couple of weeks ago, sanitized with bleach, and ran a couple of rinse tanks through the system without a hitch.  When we got to camp, everything worked splendidly and we certainly enjoyed having running water!!  That said, with ~7-10 gallons of water still in the holding tank, the pump stopped, well, pumping!  We could still hear something running, but it was much quieter than when it was actually pumping water out the faucets.  We tried adding 5-7 more gallons to the fresh water tank, to no avail.  Could this really be air in the lines, as has been suggested in other posts, since it stopped working suddenly?

Also, right before our trip, we decided to connect the hot water heater (it hadn't needed de-winterizing according to our dealer).  It had come from the dealer with a bypass in place, but neither my husband nor I could figure out a way to remove the bypass --  the hot and cold tubing were clearly fed up from below the camper in the wrong positions....the cold tube was too far away from the water heater inlet to reach, and the hot water tube had to bend (a lot) to reach the outlet on the water heater.  This was clearly a manufacturing problem, and we will try to get it fixed before our next trip.  Anyone else ever see this coming from the Coleman factory?

Happy Campers,

MaryBeth
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Old Granddad
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2010, 02:24:40 PM »

Our spanking new (then) Sun Valley had some plumbing leaks which our dealer fixed toot sweet.  Haven't dry camped with it yet, so I don't know how the water pump will perform.

BTW, Mary Beth is also the name of my first grandchild, and the little angel is taking her nap on our family room couch as I write this.  Gawd, but I do LOVE being a grandpa!
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chipperone1
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2010, 02:37:38 PM »

  As far as the water heater bypass goes, you shouldn't have to remove anything. There should be a directional control valve on the bottom of the bypass that you have to turn to enable/disable bypass mode.
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Oz and Us
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2010, 03:28:49 PM »

If the pump is running but you're not getting water from the faucets then the pump might need to be primed.  Usually just drawing water from the underfloor fresh water holding tank will suffice but sometimes it can be necessary to disconnect the intake line to the pump and use a short length of hose to feed the input side of the pump from a jug of water.  Once the pump does prime you can then reconnect it to the water line coming from the supply tank and the pump should maintain it's prime.  This is one reason I decided a long time ago to pressurize my camper's water system at home using city water under pressure, then get the pump primed, and once fully operational I'd leave the system like this for the duration of the season.  These days with our travel trailer I do the same, not only to avoid having to fool with priming the pump every time we camp but also because we can then use our facilities anytime, anywhere we want.

As for your water heater it's difficult to discern without seeing pictures of your setup whether you really have a connection problem or you just don't understand how the water heater bypass system works.
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willingtonpaul
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2010, 03:52:24 PM »

most all pumps in new trailers self prime, so i find it hard to believe that priming is the issue.  also, if you have air in the lines, leaving a faucet open while the pump is running will clear that out.  so i think either the pump is not making suction for some reason, or the hot water bypass issue and lack of drawing water from the tank are interconnected in some way, such as the system not being installed correctly from the manufacturer.  it could very well be that it was connected incorrectly at assembly, and the water heater emptied and now you are out of water there and not picking it up from the tank.  but as OZ said, it is hard to diagnose without seeing it.....
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ff911emt
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2010, 04:12:37 PM »

I have the 2010 bayside and was now just able to dewintize it and try it out with running water. The hot water connections are not valves as someone has stated before but just a short piece of tubing with the connections on the ends to bypass the water heater completly. I wonder if you may have a lagre amount of air in your hot water tank. With your home garden hose connected to your water intake and on lift up on the little flip vent valve on the top of your hot water heater it should take a minute or to till you have water spitting out of that valve. Then your hot water tank will be full. You might need to do this ocasionaly while camping if you change elevations as I do.
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gomommago
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2010, 04:53:35 PM »

....
BTW, Mary Beth is also the name of my first grandchild, and the little angel is taking her nap on our family room couch as I write this.  Gawd, but I do LOVE being a grandpa!

I wish my namesake the very best, then!  If her life is half as wonderful as mine has been, she'll be one happy girl!
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gomommago
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2010, 04:55:07 PM »

  As far as the water heater bypass goes, you shouldn't have to remove anything. There should be a directional control valve on the bottom of the bypass that you have to turn to enable/disable bypass mode.
They shipped ours with the water heater completely disconnected and a piece of connector tubing fixed between the inlet cold and outlet hot waters.  I'll ask them to fix and connect a permanent bypass.  Thanks!
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gomommago
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2010, 05:49:01 PM »

Thanks, everyone, for all of your suggestions. 

I'll try to post a picture later, but I am quite confident that the hot water heater is completely disconnected (I used to build gas lines for semiconductor processing vacuum chambers, so I am not completely clueless when it comes to plumbing...you really didn't want to screw up a silane line!).  There is no valve-based bypass system installed...the inlet and outlet tubes are simply connected to each other by a third piece of tubing.  Once you remove that third piece of tubing, there is absolutely no way that the inlet will reach the fitting labeled "cold water" on the hot water heater.  To the dealer she goes.....

Re: the water pump, I am not sure if this is a self-priming pump, but since it is brand new, I will assume so.  That said, it is curious that it worked for several tanks full after initially having hooked up to city water.

Most of our camping this year will be dry camping, so it is rather important to get this system working properly.  I don't want to have to prime the pump every other day while on a week-long trip!

I'll keep you all posted, too, on Ketelson Camper's handling of these issues.

MaryBeth

 
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Oz and Us
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2010, 06:02:58 PM »

most all pumps in new trailers self prime, so i find it hard to believe that priming is the issue.

AFAIK the water pump in the OP's new Bayside is the same ShurFlo Classic pump that Fleetwood / Coleman has been using for years, is the same pump that was in my 2000 Santa Fe, the same pump used by RVision in my 2007 TrailCruiser, and the same pump used in my 2008 KZ Spree ... and under the "right" circumstances this pump occasionally will not prime easily ... been there, done that. Angry  As I mentioned in my previous post it's the reason I much prefer to purge and pressurize my trailer's water system at home using water under pressure as the source, thereby giving the pump it's best chance of priming, and is the reason that once the system is fully purged and pressurized and the pump is working properly I prefer to leave it that way for the season.  Obviously it's difficult to assess any problem over the internet but the OP's pump not priming could be one of any one of number of reasons this Bayside's water system isn't operating properly.

To the OP ...

If your water system has an air leak then the pump will have a tough time priming and maintaining that prime ... leaks can be as simple as a loose fitting but just as likely can be caused by the city water inlet check valve not seating properly.  If your trailer was winterized and the check valve pushed in during the process without first relieving pressure in the water system the rubber O ring inside the check valve can easily be forced out of position, resulting in a leaky check valve.  Sometimes the O ring can be re-seated, sometimes it's necessary to replace the entire assembly ... I've now had to do it twice myself over the last ten years.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2010, 06:45:55 PM by Oz and Us » Logged

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gomommago
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2010, 06:41:23 PM »

most all pumps in new trailers self prime, so i find it hard to believe that priming is the issue.

AFAIK the water pump in the OP's new Bayside is the same ShurFlo Classic pump that Fleetwood / Coleman has been using for years, is the same pump that was in my 2000 Santa Fe, the same pump used by RVision in my 2007 TrailCruiser, and the same pump used in my 2008 KZ Spree ... and under the "right" circumstances this pump occasionally will not prime easily ... been there, done that. Angry  As I mentioned in my previous post it's the reason I much prefer to purge and pressurize my trailer's water system at home using water under pressure as the source, thereby giving the pump it's best chance of priming, and is the reason that once the system is fully purged and pressurized and the pump is working properly I prefer to leave it that way for the season.  Obviously it's difficult to assess any problem over the internet but the OP's pump not priming could be one of any one of number of reasons this Bayside's water system isn't operating properly.

Oz,  do you mean that you use the city water without a pressure regulator, hooked up to the city water inlet?  One of the first things we did when we were testing things out was to test out the city water hookup.  We did use a pressure regulator, though, b/c our city water has an unbelievable amount of pressure coming straight out of the tap.  I've blown up (shredded) a hose with our tap before -- I hate to see what would happen to the insides of our Bayside!

Since I am going to request that Ketelson fix what was clearly a manufacturing mistake with the hot water bypass anyway, I'll also ask them to take a look at the water pump while she's at the shop.

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Oz and Us
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« Reply #11 on: May 03, 2010, 06:49:25 PM »

Oz,  do you mean that you use the city water without a pressure regulator, hooked up to the city water inlet?

No, I always use a pressure regulator when using water under pressure ... some will attach it at the camper but I prefer to install it right at the tap source, thereby also protecting the hose feeding the camper as well as the camper's plumbing system.
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mstrbill
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« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2010, 06:50:02 PM »

Isn't there a screen on the input of the pump. could it be plugged with something left in the lines during assembly?
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Oz and Us
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« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2010, 06:56:37 PM »

Isn't there a screen on the input of the pump. could it be plugged with something left in the lines during assembly?

There is but there sure would have to be a lot of junk in there to block water flow ... but if the filter housing were cracked that would allow air into the system and make it difficult for the pump to prime and maintain it.
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'14 Freedom Express 192RBS / '05 Avalanche 4x2
'03 Fleetwood Yuma / '05 Avalanche 4x2
'08 KZ Spree 240BH-LX / '05 Avalanche 4x2
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2000 Fleetwood Santa Fe / '98 Explorer 4x4
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ff911emt
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« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2010, 07:31:51 PM »

you mentioned "Ketelson" as in colorado? Funny cuase thats where I bought mine. Great dealership and they have a good service Dept. to. Before towing your PU down there call the service dept and they may be able to tell you a easy fix over the phone.  Smile camping
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